What is the Value of a Contact Database? – In Discussion

Here are Filament founders Nick Horton and Jeremy Balius, discussing the question “What is the value of a contact database?”

Topics covered include:

• The need for engaging a contact database
• How do you start sorting through a contact database?
• Focusing only on bottom-of-funnel means missed opportunities
• Marketing and sales unified by database
• The handover process between marketing and sales
• The need for a Go-to-Market Team mindset for ABM
• How much communication is needed for ABM
• And so much more!

Click play to watch the discussion or read the transcript below.

Jeremy: Hey, Nick. One of the things that we see a lot of is that business leaders have a high degree of value that they place in a contact database that they’ve ostensibly built out over longer periods of time. They’ve not been doing anything by way of communication or nurturing or interacting with any prospects or leads in this database.

It’s just this giant list that they attribute value to. If they were to only start communicating to them, they would unlock lead flows beyond their wildest dreams. And yet on the other side, we see business leaders who don’t understand the time it takes to nurture in an appropriate way and become frustrated or disgruntled at how slowly to their minds sales flow enters the business as a result of communicating with the database.

I’d love to get your insight on unpacking those two opposing views and maybe we can converse from there.

Nick: Great. That sounds good. Thanks Jeremy. Yeah. Okay. So it’s a fascinating topic and we’ve, as you’ve acknowledged, heard both opinions from various business leaders and clients that we’ve encountered and I think, leaving aside the whole question of permissioning and opt-in and so forth, and, I don’t think we’re gonna cover that in this discussion. That’s a topic for a different day.

To me, there are two factors that are most important when we think about databases as a whole, and that’s recency and frequency. Data ages, it gets stale.

So a lot of the time we hear, oh yeah, we’ve got, 10,000. 15,000 contacts in our database. But when did you collect those? When did you collect those details? How old are those contacts in your database? We know that as a rule of thumb probably about 20 to 25% of people leave their job every year.

Extrapolating that out. After four years, probably the majority of your database has moved into a different role. Their work email has changed. And so looking at making sure that you’ve got a database that is up to date, that is being communicated with regularly, not just having, seeing it as an asset that’s just sitting there waiting to be exploited is important.

So that’s the, that’s the recency factor. Then the frequency and again, this varies by different industry and different contact type, but you need to be communicating with your database on a regular basis. That means that you are keeping the database updated because you’re gonna get those hard and soft bounces.

You’re gonna get some unsubscribes. So you are keeping your database fresh, but you are also keeping your brand in front of those prospects that you’re, you are communicating with and you are reminding them that you have an offering that they may not be interested in at the moment, but at some point in the future they may be.

And it gives you the opportunity to introduce new products and services and new features as you launch them. So for both sides, just as a starting point, I think it’s always important to remember recency and frequency. How old is the data in the database, and how often are you communicating with the database?

So that’s the starting point for those clients or those business leaders that we talk to that say, Hey, I’ve just got this pot of gold that’s waiting to be uncovered in the database. Maybe they have, but by not doing anything about it it, it degrades in value over time.

And so typically in those situations the first step that we need to look at is how do we start to. To bring, to freshen up that database. What are the first couple of communications that we can put out to the database as a whole? That just gives us the opportunity to clean out some of the old data through the hard bouncers and so forth.

But also introduce the concept to the prospects in that database that to me as a brand is gonna be starting to communicate you with you more regularly when you see communications from us. This is the sort of information you could expect. And from there and, we’ll get into this, then you can start to uncover some uncover the real value in the database.

So that’s on, on that side. Then on the other side, and again, we can expand on this, but just because you’ve got a, a prospect in a database doesn’t mean that they’re gonna be ready to buy next week. Now again, this depends on industry and buying cycles and and so forth. And we know that as we get into selling into larger and larger businesses, the purchasing cycles typically become longer the number of voices that have to be included in the purchase decision becomes greater.

And so for there, we are moving into the account-based marketing territory, but just to stick with the database topic at the moment, we need to understand what the velocity is for a prospect in your database to have a business problem that you can resolve, that you are gonna make them aware of the fact that you have a solution.

You are going to give them some proof points that demonstrate that your solution is one that they should prefer. And then obviously you’re gonna need to have a discussion around that you can that you have the right price, that you can provide the right support that you’ve got a roadmap of products and service enhancements in the future that are gonna serve them.

So there’s a lot of different communications that have to take place.

For someone in your database to go from, okay, I’m aware of your brand, but that’s about it to I’m ready to purchase from you. So where we are in the situation where, you know, especially, a sales leader or a commercial leader is coming to us and saying, Hey look, we just need to start sending emails out and we are gonna get leads out of the database.

That’s when we start to have that conversation where we say, we break down the process. And I find it works well to be quite empathetic and say, Know if you or your team meet someone at a trade show, how long, how many conversations, how many cups of coffee or meetings or whatever rule of thumb that we want to use, does it take before they’re ready to receive a proposal from you?

And we need to think about that in the digital perspective as well, which is, how we would nurture a database Bit of, a bit of a high level. But for both of those scenarios there are good discussions to be had and there’s obviously truth in, in both viewpoints.

But we need to have a structure to engage with your database, the right tools a good sense of having the right programs and processes in place.

And then, something that I’m sure we’ll get into starting to separate the database into different categories, whether we call that lead qualification categories or could be geographic or industry segmentation or whatever.

It doesn’t really matter, but how do we start to go the next step to uncover value?

Jeremy: I think that’s so fascinating and so true for a whole range of businesses. And I think what’s pretty clear here is this issue that majority of businesses face regardless of size and sector or company type.

Would love to drill down into a couple of things you mentioned around the unsegmented database, this black hole of contacts that have been aggregated over time from who knows where, it’s usually not tracked at all.

They’ve just been added to the pile of contacts. Yeah. Yeah. So there, there is that component. It is likely that sales teams are utilizing it to some degree in terms of where they’ve gone through to prospect and they’ve cherry-picked out whom they wanna pursue on a one-to-one basis.

But to what degree? Is the process component that you were talking about unlocking potentially missed opportunity?

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. So I think the place to start off with is in any data or any client that’s using some sort of CRM to manage their database. There’ll typically be information in there and there might be things like someone that you’ve been pitching for a deal and you didn’t, you weren’t successful for that deal.

And they’ve been put in a category. So you’ve got leads that have been well qualified. That are just then being ignored because they didn’t purchase in that instance.

So there’s a pool of value or a pool of potential there. There are probably leads or prospects in your database that have maybe visited your website on multiple occasions or have interacted with some content.

So again, there are signals or information that you are that you’re gonna be capturing in your CRM.

Anyway, and so you can start off a process, I think by just from. What is this? Let’s call it the static data that we’ve got, that we can start to look at some initial categories that we can put prospects into, and that will be different depending on your database and on the data that you’ve collected.

You might say, Hey as a starting point, We will divide the database up geographically or because we’ve got company name and the email address, we can group prospects together in either ABM type lists. So based on the company that they work for or category or industry type lists.

And then that’s at a base level, but then you can start to bring in some of those other factors in terms of how they’ve interacted with you in the past.

A prospect that has been through the sales process, even if you weren’t ultimately successful, is gonna be more valuable and is more likely to purchase from you in the future than a business card that you’ve picked up at a trade show.

So how do you then, Go that next level and start to attach a relative weighting to the information that you’ve got in the database. Now we work with clients a lot on the, that use HubSpot. That’s what we use ourselves internally. And HubSpot has a great lead-scoring system. This is not unique to them.

Most of the marketing automation platforms operate there. We find that the HubSpot lead scoring system works really well, but effectively what that means is that you are just assigning a value to each interaction. So a business card collected at an event that’s a low value interaction, so we’ll give it a low score.

Someone that’s maybe downloaded a white paper, that’s a higher value interaction. They’re really keen to understand more about your solution through their actions. And so we’ll assign at a higher score. So by looking at the data that we’ve got in the database, we can start to categorize into groups that are relevant.

We can start to attach some value to the interactions that they’ve had through some sort of lead scoring. And from there, then we need to really start experimenting.

Let’s start being proactive in communications.

Let’s start sending some offers, content offers newsletters, whatever it may be, out to the database, and see the interactions that we get from the prospects that have got the different lead scores and what, informational inference.

Can we draw from their behaviour? And Even within the basic data that we’ve collected within our CRM, there’s a lot of value that we can be starting to uncover that can then start to drive some behaviours.

Jeremy: I wanna stay on this topic, but I wanna come at it from another angle. There is this obsession with only focusing on what we would call bottom of funnel leads.

Yeah. Where, yeah. They’ve already completed their research. They have a known pain point that they are trying to resolve. They are already assessing the market for providers. There is an obsession with only wanting to find these types to book meetings. And we see ad investments only targeting those types.

We see content developed against that. We’ve got SDRs deployed to only call and book meetings with people who are ready to talk to us now. Yeah. But it sounds to me, based on what you’re saying, that the missed opportunity is everything else that happens before that is being ignored.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. And I think the best way to think about this is we have a process, we might call it a marketing funnel or a qualification process or whatever.

That’s designed to digitally get prospects to that point where they attend a webinar about how easy it is to implement your solution, the salesperson’s on the phone to them the next day, and suddenly they’re putting a proposal in front of them or they’re responding to an RFP.

The digital process that we have, the marketing automation process that we have is really complimentary, not supplementary to that bottom of funnel activity.

It’s complimentary because it will help us scale our qualifications so that the people that register for the webinar or, download the implementation guide or whatever that bottom of funnel signal is, has been through the process of understanding more about your business.

Understanding your capability to resolve their business problem have some indication in terms of case studies or other customer proof that you are a reliable provider of solutions and maybe they understand your pricing or how your pricing compares to that to your competitors, and then they’re ready to buy it.

So the way that I think about it is you can have a salesperson. Or a group of SDRs, cold calling your database and they will. By volume of activity striking those prospects that are, that are in the market for a solution.

All a database focused digital marketing, marketing automation program aims to do is do all of that activity, all of that calling and initial conversations digitally.

That allows you to scale. That means that rather than a team of SDRs, contacting a hundred leads a week or whatever it might be, we are able to interact with 10,000 leads every week.

Be delivering them different messaging that is suitable to where they are in that, in their decision-making cycle or in their purchase process.

And also start to start to qualify out those that. Aren’t, aren’t ready to buy or we keep nurturing them, but we deliver to, at the end of that process, we deliver to the sales team, to the SDR team, to the BDM team, whoever it may be, leads that have got, got that qualification that are ready to have a good conversation with the salesperson.

Yeah, again, it’s a compliment to a sales process rather than a design to supplement a sales process.

Jeremy: One of the themes that I see emerging here about, as we’re talking about databases, is the tracking of the entire life cycle of a sale essentially from, to use HubSpot’s language, stranger to customer, to refer since it’s across the lifecycle.

Why do you think that traditionally there’s been this disparity between marketing and sales and as you are describing it a complimentary process where the sales conversations are actually becoming better or higher quality as a result of these marketing activities? Yeah. What has driven a wedge between that?

Is it because there just hasn’t been a rigorous or rigid process around the demand gen? Is it because the database hasn’t been used in the way that you’re describing? What are some of those inhibitors?

Nick: Yeah. To me, I see two main reasons for that. The first is the silo mentality that sales and marketing are different teams that are focused on different outputs or different outcomes for the business.

To me that that may apply in the, in fact, that never applies, but especially in the, in, in B2B, they are part of the same process where it works best. Where I’ve seen it work best is where sales and marketing are in a commercial team or a Go to Market team, whatever you want to call it, that are aligned against the same goals.

The goal ultimately is to sign new business or retain business for your brand, for your company. And each team has a role to play and. No, we’re not gonna get into customer success, but they have a role to play as well. But each team has a role to play in that process, and it’s simple.

So if you can look at it from a commercial, go-to-market perspective and understand the value that the marketing team play the role that the marketing team plays, the value that they bring, the role that the sales team plays and the value that they bring, then you can start to get that alignment.

The other big factor that I see is a short term versus long term sales teams are. Rightly or wrongly, probably rightly incentivised on short-term behaviours. How many sales did you get this week, this month, this quarter, this year?

Marketing activities in that B2B demand generation process are by necessity, longer term. It may take a year to nurture a lead who has visited your site and signed up to your mailing list.

It may take them a year before a salesperson can have a conversation. There probably needs to be a lot of activity that happens in that year. We know that whenever we are working with clients on, organic lead generation or SEO programs, that definitely takes time.

It takes time to be ranking for the right keywords. It takes time for those rankings to rise so that you’re actually driving the right type of organic traffic to your website. They are likely to be higher-value leads. They’re intent-driven, but it does take time Sales teams are by necessity focused on short-term objectives.

Marketing teams need to be focused on longer-term objectives and sometimes, and often that does cause friction because sales will be in a whole and they’re like what is all of this money we’re spending on marketing generating for us if we are not being able, if we are not able to meet our targets?

Conversely, marketing might be saying, look, we are producing, we’re spending all of this time and all of these tools and resources to produce these great quality leads. Why are you converting more of them?

And so that’s where I think, and this applies to both. It’s that coming together recognizing that you are aligned against the same goal, but more importantly, there are points of friction or interaction where you need to understand.

The expectations on either side. So sales need to be saying to marketing, if you tell me this is a SQL sales qualified lead, it needs to have the following criteria. It needs to be not this. And I need to be able to have this sort of conversation with that person.

By the same token, marketing needs to understand or marketing needs to be saying to sales here are all the leads that we are developing that you told us are qualified.

What is stopping you from being successful, converting more of them? Is there more information or qualification that we need to be doing digitally through our tools through the activities that we’re, we are doing with the database to be able to produce that, that best quality lead for you, that buy-ready lead.

And so at that point of friction, being clear about. Where the responsibility lies and what is going to be that handover point between the marketing team and the sales team.

Jeremy: When we build this process, the funniest response to my mind when talking about what those criteria should comprise is only send me leads that are ready to buy from us now.

Having to unpack, actually guys, we need to build a process here. Could we look at what that would mean for a database? How would that, what you’re just describing that handover process, the who owns what does that mean to the structure or segmentation of a database?

Nick: Yeah. No, that’s a great question and I think, that’s the, that’s gotta be the starting point. We need to understand from a marketing perspective, what is that buy-ready lead and not just it’s a buy-ready lead.

How do we qualify that? Is it that they have attended, a webinar and a implementation video session?

Or have they downloaded the price guide and used an online calculator, what, whatever it may be.

But, we need to be able to define what that is. And then from there we build up, and this is where we look at behaviours of prospects that have successfully gone through the process in the past, or prospects that have been unsuccessful in, in terms of our ability to convert them into a sale through the past.

What are the steps of learning, of information, of awareness, of consideration that they’ve been through? So we, starting from. What are sales expectations? Working up understanding how do we take someone that’s a stranger to our brand, maybe to be getting them ready to that point.

So by starting from there, we can start to build out, and this will happen from experimentation within the database.

And Lots of communication and understanding behaviours, but how do we get, how do we build out, okay, if we, first of all get someone to join our mailing list and they get a regular newsletter and then they interact with a blog, and then they download a case study and then they attend a webinar.

That is gonna be a good journey for a lead to go through, to be ready to purchase this type of product, to have that sales ready conversation. So how do we start to build out those patterns of behavior, which tell us that.

This is the journey that we want prospects to take, but also what are journeys that don’t end up in a sale?

What are the steps that someone might go through that we think means that they’re qualified, but actually means that they’re not being successful? And so that, that will be how I build that up.

Typically, the situation that we encounter is there’s a database. There’s been lots of activity happening.

There’s been sales happening, but there’s no overall picture of how that looks. And so that’s where, there’ll be a, there’ll be, as we were talking about before, there’ll be a lot of value that we can get out of the database so we can start to put some categorization or some lead scoring around the prospects that are in the database and to start to build that picture.

The other thing that, that we so often see and is symptomatic of maybe the short-term and long-term view is we’ll talk to a client and the sales team will have great dashboards.

They’ll have, here are all my prospects, here are the conversations that I’m having. Here are the proposals that I’ve sent out, or the RFPs that I’ve responded to.

Here’s my closed one, here’s my closed last et cetera, et cetera. When we talk to the marketing team, they just don’t have that, but they need to have that visibility in of reporting to be able to produce the right quality results.

And the marketing reporting shouldn’t be about lists of leads because that sales responsibility, the marketing reporting should be structured around.

What is the qualification steps that we need to take a lead through to turn them into an SQL or a sales accepted lead, if that’s the terminology that the company uses.

And that will typically be, buckets of the strangers, prospects, MQL, SAL, SQL, whatever it may be, but, by putting the prospects or the leads into those buckets, we can do two things.

We can look at how long it takes someone to go through the process, and then what is the efficiency of the process. So how many how many leads do we lose when we go from MQL to SQL?

And then that gives us points of focus where we can say, okay, we are losing a lot of MQLs when they go to SQL because we send them this communication and then they don’t convert.

Or we invite them to this webinar and they never attend. Or we have this face-to-face event, whatever it may be. So how do we be more efficient at taking prospects through that funnel and delivering more of those great sales-ready leads to the sales team.

Jeremy: Yeah, that’s great. How do we make sense of this in the context of account-based marketing where we have a either a list or a we’re very decisive of the types of companies we wanna work with.

There may be a whole range of individuals we need to be interacting with within that organization, either because it’s a formal buying committee or because there’s a number of stakeholders or influencers involved in a process. How do we make sense of that in the context of ABM?

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. And I think ABM account-based marketing is a, only works when you have that commercial go-to market team mindset where the sales team and the marketing team are really aligned on committing to.

An ABM marketing approach, it does not work if it’s only something that’s done by marketing, so at a base level, there needs to be a commitment from both sides that, okay, this is the, our main go to market is gonna be through looking at an account-based marketing approach, because, What, the companies that we target the companies in the sectors that we target needs to be informed by sales, and then the insight from sales needs to drive the A B M activity.

Jeremy, you’ve rightly pointed out that there are buying committees or there are different influences on decision-making process.

It may be finance, it may be procurement, it may be risk management, legal, other teams that we would normally not have anything to do with. So again, that sales insight needs to inform the ABM activities that we do.

So from there, when we think talking about this in a database perspective, then we can obviously from the database extract, extract lists of contacts that we’ve got. In each in each target company, in each target account.

But then we also need to be looking at, okay, what are the gaps? If we’ve got the, let’s say we’ve got the IT manager and the CIO, but we know that the buying committee also includes the finance director and the head of legal.

Then we need, by having that insight from sales, we need to be proactively addressing those gaps in our database so that we are So that we’ve got, all of the right personalities engaged.

What we find often going beyond the database or taking extracts from your database, loading them into something like LinkedIn, where we can tell LinkedIn, okay, here are the accounts that we want to target from our database or from who sales have told us are relevant.

And now I want you to look for these types of job titles, or job function or skillset in those target accounts.

And then we can use them to try and then we can use a platform like LinkedIn to try and engage with those personalities, first of all, and then take them off the LinkedIn platform onto our website and start gathering information about them and start nurturing them.

So that’s the first step. Then the second step is really to think about the different types of conversations that you need to be having with those different groups within each account to be able to at the point where the, the salesperson is talking to the CTO and the CTO’s ready to buy.

All of the other decision makers or influences within that account are ready to support the CTO’s decision. So we need to be segmenting the communications that we have based on the information that we’ve got in the database to those different personalities. To be very simplistic, a risk a legal or risk person is gonna wanna understand our quality systems, our ability to comply with local legislations, et cetera.

Finance department is gonna wanna understand what’s the roi? How does this mean that I’m able to reduce my op? My CapEx and spend more Opex or whatever it may be. As well as your technology teams who are gonna wanna understand, how do I implement the solution?

How does it work with other solutions that I already operating within my environment.

What is the user what is the user experience outcome gonna be, which is increasingly important for technology teams. So different communications are gonna be required for different stakeholder roles within each account. That means that we’re able to deliver that great buy-ready lead.

That’s not just about, okay, we’ve convinced the CTO, it’s the whole team’s ready to sign.

Jeremy: It’s so easy to forget that these are real-life people on the other end. Yeah. Yeah. When you’re staring at. Contact records in a CRM or number volumes against lifecycle stages. But each of these different roles have unique experiences in their day-to-day lives.

They’ve got their own individual issues. They’ve got their own KPIs. They’re as busy as everybody else. Yes. Stressed out potentially. Why are business leaders so surprised to have this logical view taken across all of these roles within an organization, but then be surprised by the volume of communication required?

To get their attention in the first instance, and not just once, but repeatedly. Yeah. And then to be able to have a digital conversation, or at least have messaging in front of them over time. Why is that such a surprise?

Nick: Yeah, that’s a great question because if you ask a salesperson, it won’t be a surprise for them.

They know that they’re gonna have to have a different type of conversation with a technology person as opposed to a finance person as opposed to the CEO, for instance.

Each will be looking for different outcomes. Or from the one solution. So a salesperson won’t be surprised about that.

And all we’re doing on the marketing side really is using tools and personas which we can talk about in a minute to try and replicate at scale again, at scale.

Those conversations that the salesperson will have. A salesperson might visit a prospect for the day and they’ll spend most of their time with the technology team, but the. The, head of IT operations will introduce them to the finance manager because the finance manager has to prepare the business case.

And so the salesperson will have a different conversation with the finance manager than they’ve been having with the head of IT operations, for instance.

And all we’re trying to do on a marketing side is replicate that at scale and we replicate that at scale through the use of personas.

So we say this is what a finance person will look like in a insurance company. This is what a, a risk team member will look like in an insurance company, and this is what a technology leader will look like in an insurance company, acknowledging very much the points that you are talking about, Jeremy, which is they have different perspectives.

They’re coming from a different place. When it comes to technology, the technology team is looking for a. A business outcome that may be around ease of user interaction or make your tools easier for your staff to use. A finance manager will be looking at how does this help me run my, run the business more efficiently?

How does this help me reduce costs? Maybe have resources that can be deployed to different areas. We use personas to try and identify the motivations and drivers for those different groups. And then by using those personas, we can start to address the communication to them specifically.

So when we encounter as you talked about in your question, business leaders that are surprised by that, I find it’s always really useful to take it back to these are the conversations that your salespeople will have. And what we are trying to do digitally through the use of personas and database marketing is.

Take those conversations and make them happen at scale. So that we’re able to deliver again that that buy ready lead to the salesperson.

Jeremy: One of the trends that we’re really trying to champion as a, as an organization is the level of involvement or influence marketing has on revenue.

And having the ability to understand across the organization, marketing, sales, customer success how this is all connected into revenue. Yeah. As we start looking at these trends of connecting it to revenue, we’re also starting to see that the concept of adversarial marketing-originated revenue is starting to ebb and the focus is becoming more on marketing-influenced revenue.

Yeah. Particularly for B2B companies where the sales cycle can be 12, 18, 24 months. The interactions between sales and a prospect or lead might be months apart. The role of marketing within that is highly influential. Be keen to hear your take on this situation.

Nick: Yeah, and look, I think that this is an area where sometimes marketing doesn’t help itself.

And, marketing needs to, when I started my career a long time ago we knew that half of what we spent drove results. We just didn’t know which half.

But the use of digital tools means that’s no longer the case. And so marketing needs to be upfront and be asking for and engaging with what are they gonna be, the relevant targets for me and my team and my part in the process that is going to indicate how we’re helping support the overall outcome.

And the targets need to be and, influence revenue is a great one. Because that then, by its definition means that what we’re doing is driving revenue, but it’s not the only thing that’s driving revenue.

Marketing does not have the sales, on B2B side marketing primarily is not having the conversations which convert into a sale.

That’s the salespeople’s role. Obviously on the SaaS side, then that, that can be different. Let’s not worry about that. Let’s talk a traditional marketing and sales type type situation.

And so by talking about something like marketing influence revenue we’re acknowledging that we are not responsible for the revenue that’s the sales team’s job, but that we’re responsible for delivering those right prospects to the sales team for them to for them to generate the revenue.

There’s also a danger, I think, that marketing focuses on. The wrong metrics. What I like to think of as vanity metrics, which sound amazing, but may not have an influence on that. Marketing influence, revenue. And we all know them. We ran a social media campaign and it garnered 10,000 impressions.

That’s great. But did any of those impressions turn into an interaction or did any of those impressions turn into a site visitor or a company page follow, or whatever it may be? So some of these big, big numbers can be a bit more vanity than reality. It may be that 10,000 impressions leads to a hundred site visitors, which leads eventually to, three sales-qualified leads, in which case let’s get a hundred thousand impressions because suddenly we’ve delivered 30 leads.

But looking at those large numbers, those vanity metrics, because marketing’s operating at scale they need to be put in context of is this the right metric to focus on?

To deliver the right lead to deliver that right marketing influenced revenue. So I think. Marketing needs to own up to, yes, we want to targets, and those targets need to be meaningful for the business.

We are not responsible for the revenue target, that’s the sales team’s job, but we are responsible for influencing the revenue which they eventually sign. And these are the metrics that we have or the KPIs that we have that are relevant for delivering against that. And that’s hard.

And we’ve talked before about having the right level of reporting and dashboards, and they’re gonna help build out that picture and really demonstrate that you are focused from a marketing perspective on driving the right outcomes.

That you understand the role that you play and the role that your, that the interactions that you drive at scale play in terms of delivering the result for the business.

Jeremy: With your database being the vehicle to the driver. Yeah. Manage this.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. Look, and I think that’s a great point. The and Jeremy you often say this and I love saying it as well, your website is your number one marketing asset, your number one brand asset really in many instances.

And how do you start to measure the interactions from your. Website, it’s the information that you capture and you put into your CRM that you put into your database that you can then use for the next conversation with that prospect. So yeah, a hundred percent.

Jeremy: Fantastic insight. There’s lots to think about here. Lots to consider. Appreciate your thoughts, Nick.

Nick: Okay, great, lovely conversation. Thanks very much, Jeremy.