Episode 1: Partner Enablement with James Davis from Pax 8

The theme of this first episode is Partner Enablement.

Joining our host Jeremy Balius to discuss all things partner enablement is James Davis, Director of Academy Asia at Pax8.

James brings a refreshing view and deep insight on what it means to build and deliver partner enablement programs in channel programs or in a cloud marketplace ecosystem.

Enjoy the conversation!

Connect with James Davis on LinkedIn.

Discover the Pax8 Academy.

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Jeremy: Hi there and welcome to B2B Tech Marketing Talks podcast. I’m your host Jeremy Balius and today’s theme is partner enablement.

Joining me here today to discuss all things partner enablement is James Davis, who’s the director of Academy Asia for Pax8.

Pax8 is a cloud marketplace that simplifies the way organizations buy, sell and manage cloud solutions by way of consolidated billing, automated provisioning and industry-leading PSA. software integration. Welcome, James, and thanks for being on the show.

James: Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Jeremy: Before we get into your role and all things Pax8 Academy, I’d love to hear a bit about your background working in the channel and with IT businesses. Could you give us a bit of context of where you’re coming from prior to this?

James: So the summary version is actually not from the IT industry originally. I started a small gardening business when I was 20 and did all the wrong things and learned all the wrong mistakes and worked too hard for not enough money.

And then I transitioned into sales and then fell into being the first salesperson in an MSP in Canberra. And I built that up and I learned a lot, got bored. went back and created another business that I grew way too quickly and burnt myself out again.

And then ended up back into the MSP as the General Manager and then helped the owner achieve what he wanted to do. And then I realised other people needed help.

I was in the HTG program back in the day, and I just started helping people and fell into paid coaching engagements. Then basically I kept doing that and then met the guys from Sea-Level US. and they had a program that they developed and were struggling to get traction down in this part of the world.

So we joined up. I started Sea-Level APAC in 2020, started building that up and then got acquired by Pax8 last year in April. So I have been with that for a year now.

Jeremy: Yeah, fantastic. So in this most recent consulting background, tell me a bit about in what ways you were working with business leaders.

James: So it started with helping develop their people, helping their service managers and stuff, because there wasn’t really a whole lot of education and I was sort of the one that had been there and done that and people knew who I was.

They were asking me to help their service manager do better things and then I realized I could only make so much change with the service manager that I had to start working with the owners.

I started to then work with them so they could understand their finances. develop better sales strategy, how to structure their teams and their organisations, how to utilise their tools better, etc. etc. etc. across the whole gamut of the MSP business to help them grow.

I have helped quite a few partners, MSPs, grow over the sort of last six years and make more money than they ever have.

I just keep finding new challenges and new parts of the IT technology business industry to work in and just keep learning and keep growing to help others grow and achieve better things.

Jeremy: That’s amazing.

I want to drill into components of that when we talk about the context of the Academy that you’re leading in the way that you’re working with those businesses. But so you say, Pax8 acquires Sea-Level. You come onboard.

You’re Director of Academy Asia. Tell me what that means. What are you responsible for?

James: At the moment I’m responsible for enabling partners through education.

It’s the high-level tagline. And what that basically means is providing different streams of information in different packages to help our partners grow, to help them reduce their risk and become more efficient, improve profits, develop their people and give them a competitive edge.

It’s a different kind of enablement and a lot deeper than when you hear that enablement term. I think it’s becoming a bit of a throwaway term in our IT industry now that there’s a lot of lip service to it, but I’m very privileged to be in my position where we’re doing things that are actually matter to the partner and mainly due to the types of people that are in Academy, we’ve all worked in partner businesses.

We don’t have this vendor slant of a corporate enterprise level approach. We’ve been in the trenches for a decade plus.

There’s a reason why I’ve got white hair because I’ve been working in an MSP. We’ve been there and done that. So there’s a different, there’s more of that real partner first focus.

Jeremy: I want to drill into that last part there, because I think that’s really important to talk about where vendors or distributors or marketplaces tend to not have ex-MSPs or people who have that “blood, sweat and tears” rungs on the board, or they don’t have the scars of what it takes to run these businesses.

What’s the differentiation there?

Because this isn’t kids or SDRs trying to sell to MSPs. This seems like management consulting blended with sales development, blended with marketing enablement, right across their business.

James: It is. And that’s like the C-level, I used to C-level business because that was much more structured than me do my own cowboy coaching. So C-level was founded on the back of three, three guys in the US like, it’d be like 13 years ago now, who had worked in MSPs for 10, 20 years by that point.

They created a structured program of like the best practice operational practices for MSPs. And the whole business was based on coaching the owners and their leaders on how to implement these best practices in their business so that they would be more profitable.

They’d be more efficient. They’d have happier people. All the benefits of that.

And through that, there’s a lot of knowledge and experience on that business consulting side. And we know the business model inside and out. because we’ve been there and done that. And I think that’s one of the most important parts of enablement. And when I look at people that talk about enabling and I’m a bit of a, I caused a bit of mischief in this.

Now I’m actually in the channel rather than being a channel partner. I challenge people all the time to go, well, do you know… how this MSP operates or how it actually affects this product affects them and goes through the change and most people don’t know. And for me, you can’t really enable someone if you don’t know the person on the other side.

That’s where even MSPs can learn from this is we’ve got those client engagements that we’ve got. Often we know parts of their business, but we don’t know their full business operations. We can’t talk to them.

We talk about how they earn their money, what are their key processes, what’s their industry challenges, etc. etc. When you know that, then you can speak their language and then you can actually work out how to help them because there’s no one size fits all to your enablement practices and the way you talk about things.

But if you don’t have a true understanding of the other person on the side, on the other side, it’s very difficult to educate them in the right way. It’s very difficult to get them engaged and bought in and then actually give them the results that they need and want.

The absolutely have that experience to know they might not even know they need or want it until you tell them that in the right way that this is actually the problem that they’re facing.

It’s a very difficult position to be in, but that’s the sort of consulting coaching business management side makes this a very unique thing that we can have a huge impact.

Jeremy: So what really resonates with me, what you’re saying here, is the level of empathy that you’re bringing to the table because you personally and the team, because you’ve experienced this and because you’ve run your own businesses, you’ve suffered in the way that these guys do, and you’ve made all the mistakes in the way that they do.

You learn the things that they’re learning. I think there’s a level of understanding that you’re able to bring to the table to help guide, but also just to be a sounding board in a way that a vendor channel manager who’s been working for multinationals their whole career, they just haven’t been exposed to that level of stress of how am I gonna pay my guys?

Or more bluntly, how am I going to feed my family?

And I think that’s what resonates with me the most here, is that level of empathy.

James: And you touched on the point there around like the making payroll.

It’s a question I ask people all the time as a sort of a level setter Yeah, we’ve got a lot of in the vendor / disti world.

There’s a lot of very clever highly educated people Very capable do capable and do some awesome things but if you’ve never had to worry about feeding like 20 people’s families and You’re struggling with cash flow and you’re getting up a day or two out and you might not make payroll, you’ve never really felt what stress is.

But all the partners out there have lived that. And that sort of that core behaviour affects a lot of the mentality of how they go about making decisions. And that’s where that disconnect starts happening.

Even that appreciation for how busy small business people are. compared to being in an enterprise, corporate environment, like always, hear people go, I’m super busy in this job. Got one job, you’ve got a certain amount of tasks to do.

Sure, there’s a lot to do, but just imagine a small business owner that does your job as an account manager, does the marketing, does the service delivery, does the billing and the finance. You don’t know what busy is and that appreciation.

That’s where that enablement piece comes in, because it’s not just understanding and having that sort of compassion and empathy for what they’ve going through. It’s knowing the other side of what’s possible when you help them solve their problems.

Jeremy: Right, right. Now, you mentioned one size doesn’t fit all.

You’re working across ecosystems, managed service providers, system integrators, resellers, et cetera.

You’ve got the Academy built in such a way where you’ve delivered flexibility and choice around how the guys wanna engage you in terms of whether it’s on-demand courses, instructor-led courses. You’ve got peer groups, you’ve got business coaching directly, which is, I presume, what we’ve been just talking about.

Tell me a bit more about how different organisations and IT companies are engaging you, and in what ways they are in different stages of their own life cycle and how they’re benefiting.

James: So the reason why we, and you’ve touched on this point in how you just introduced this, the reason why we have different streams is because businesses are at different points and it’s a combination of a few things. It’s mindset, it’s operational maturity stages, it’s size of business and it’s growth rate.

Also I don’t talk we’ve been talking about the small business owner. It’s the small business owners direction of purpose for way bit what they’re doing as well because at the end of the day, small businesses revolve around the owner, like it or not. It takes a long time.

You probably only get up start getting the owner out of the business really past maybe 200-300 people It’s still very much that owner’s culture and what their skills are and what their personalities, all that kind of stuff and what they value. So that’s delivering in different methods allows us to have different cost structures to it.

Our content, our LMS library of resources, is free to all partners. One of the reasons for that is obviously is an enablement program. You need something that you can give away.

Like I do thought leadership stuff. That’s all free obviously because there’s a stage where you need to educate people on a future vision and you’ve got to give them awareness that they’ve got problems.

Then what’s always missing from some of these strategies is the actual practical resources to takeaway, like I’ve been in the industry, I’ve gone to all these industry events before you hear for a long time.

We’ve had the people from the US come down and give these great keynotes or sort of great sessions where it’s thought-provoking, but there’s no follow-up behind it. And that’s not enabling.

If you just create, if I just rocked up to you, Jeremy, and told you, you’ve got all these problems with the business and got you pumped up or gave you a vision for what could be next and I just walked away, how does that help you as a business owner? It doesn’t.

So that’s our LMS is all about that practical awareness level stuff. It’s a resource that you can start and use.

The instructor-led courses are topic-based, instructor-led virtual sessions that have a structure to them and are led by people, experienced people that are instructing. So if we do a course on service management. they’ve been a service manager and they’re able to interact with people.

And, you know, we all know courses, but the reason why we do it as instructor-led is because people need accountability and they need the interaction. So while the LMS resources are fantastic and you can learn a lot, most people don’t learn by self.

They’re not self driven to learn. But if they’ve got a set time that they need to rock up, someone’s giving them the answer. someone’s sort of holding them accountable for their learning.

People engage with that a lot better.

Jeremy: I’m going to jump in there as well. It sounds to me also that deep thought has been given to how do we break down the structures of habits in people’s lives, right?

Because you hand them all the resources and send them on their way, normal human behaviour is to revert straight back into whatever’s been done the moment you hit the slightest snag or problem or crisis.

You go back into your normal everyday behaviour. So it sounds like you’re really trying to break into a “How do we reframe your approach and break down what you’ve been doing to ensure that you’re thriving into the future?”

James: And you need to, like I spoke about before, how busy all the employees and small businesses are alike. Like it’s not obviously human nature very much. We all do that. Uh, different personalities. All right.

I love learning. So I, I’m self-driven to do it. But when I get busy, I do less of it. It’s only natural, but if you’re already busy and you don’t know a lot of this stuff and you, it’s not necessarily that you’re not driven to learn.

It’s more. you don’t know what you should be learning and you need a bit more of a structure to what you’re trying to get out of it um and that accountability from the actually having interaction is important and that’s where I’ve seen a lot of um programs and having been in the being in the partners and having to learn all this stuff in the industry

That’s where everyone thinks, well, scalability is super important. I get that. I run a business. I’m building this up.

So they all default to, let’s check it all out as, um, online resources. They miss how people learn. They miss that interaction.

They miss that knowledge of even as simple as something as most MSPs don’t actually dedicate time. in a structured way for people to learn. And most, when I talk to service managers and business owners, they’re all telling me that their people aren’t taking time outside of their business day to go and self-learn.

So if it’s all online and there’s no structure around it, could be the best content in the world, but if no one actually looks at it in the first place or takes the time to go through it properly or then has that sort of accountability at the end. It’s a whole lot of waste of time for everyone a lot of the time.

That comes from living it and breathing it and sort of spending the time to think about, again, that sort of impact and how to influence people to change.

Jeremy: Yeah. In terms of common challenges that you’re seeing across IT ecosystem and landscape, in what ways do you see these businesses and these partners engaging the Academy?

Are there commonalities? Are there hot topics or courses that are exceeding the others because it’s just so… so empowering and so prevalent to solving the issues they’re facing.

James: Yeah, there’s a few. There’s a few topics.

There’s the ones that have been around since I started in the industry, which worries me. Like things like how to service management and project management and account management, like the staples of our sort of operational operations of our technology businesses and then the people.

So there’s a constant challenge of lack of experience in the anyone with any sort of real talent, they’re in sales, they’ll outgrow their MSP typically. Same with the service managers as well.

There’s more opportunity to go to corporate or do your own thing or something like that. So there’s this constant cycle that’s sort of mid-level job roles.

And because most of our businesses aren’t operationally mature, keep cycling through the same processes. So those are always around.

Cybersecurity is a big one at the moment too. It’s like the sort of the hot topic for everyone. But most people, what I’m finding fascinating is, and it shouldn’t be a surprise because most of the owners are technology-focused people, the technical people have been doing this a long time.

They’re very excited about the technical side of the cybersecurity, but when it comes to the real needs around cybersecurity, like managing to a framework, operationalizing those practices, they’re not quite there yet.

They probably haven’t experienced enough pain of what they’re doing. Um, that they, they’re not, it’s not as popular as it should be.

Probably the other topic, um, because of cyber security that’s coming up a lot, is people realizing that they need contracts for their services. That’s an industry we’ve gotten away with it for a long time, which is doing handshakes and we’ll be right, but that, that formality is having to come into play.

Jeremy: Hmm. Look, I totally get that. And I think there’s, as you mentioned, a lot of these issues have been prevalent for a very long time. What about, not so much in cybersecurity, although I’m sure this fits in it, but are you helping businesses take new products and services to market or are you giving them frameworks to do so?

James: Yeah, we are.

So I have just been working with a lot of Southeast Asian partners as an example. The market’s very different to ANZ, a lot of them are a bit more aligned to the SIS sort of business structures and a lot of them are wanting to do managed services.

So helping them build out that sort of product and service solution package I’ve been doing directly through coaching.

I’ve been helping some other businesses around business digital transformation type opportunities and even things like security awareness training is a really good and exciting example around this most people go.

‘Well, I’ll just buy a product and I’ll just resell it out’, this is where I’m sort of sharing my experience around building these educational offerings and getting them to think about instead of just selling the product and it’s just online training and most people won’t necessarily buy into it.

Packaging up a service where you’ve got someone actually providing some actual virtual training or face-to-face training and getting recurring revenue out of that. Not many, not many MSPs are doing that. So I have that sort of high-level coaching.

We’re doing it and we’re feeding more, more resources through courses and the LMS as well to help people package up this and enable them to actually just not just sell a product but actually make the money around all the services you’re trying to deliver because I think this is often forgotten by a lot of vendors when they’re just thinking about the licenses that they’re trying to sell.

Licenses don’t make the partners a whole lot of money but a lot of this stuff makes their service delivery run better, it makes the client’s environment more stable or it’s something the client needs to be productive or help them do their job. The real money that…

Jeremy: Or more simplistically an opportunity fell in their laps and now they’re trying to figure out, “hey, we’ve got the opportunity to make some money. We need to get this off the ground super fast.”

James: Exactly. And so where our partners all make their money is out of their services.

There’s often that disconnect of understanding what the product does, how the partner can actually productize that and sell it and deliver it, manage it, maintain it, and what it actually means to the end client at the end.

Because what’s often, it’s always forgotten is the client at the end doesn’t care what the brand, what the label of the product is. They don’t care. It’s technical.

I’d say vendors push all this vendor branding and technical stuff. End clients don’t care. Our partners are the ones translating it into going, here’s the solution, here’s the problem that we’re trying to solve.

They’re not, they know and sense these opportunities, like what you’re saying, like, oh, there’s an opportunity that fell on my lap or the client’s requesting some solution for something, but our partners aren’t necessarily able to articulate that problem statement in a repeatable way.

And that’s where I see you, like what you do is help that help them and enable them to sell those kinds of solutions better. The products just slot into those solutions for like an MSP or an SI to actually then go and deliver and make a lot more money out of what they’re selling.

Jeremy: I think this is fantastic and this is very much our focus here at Filament as well is these businesses are run by hyper-intelligent people who have built incredible services and are delivering customer excellence and outcomes for their end users.

But they’re still very much of the mindset of if you build it they’ll come. And the best product always wins. And if they simply bring it into their catalogue, that it will somehow sell itself.

And there’s this disparity, because these are very smart people, and yet there’s this gap in their understanding of, as you say, translating it into an environment where an end user buyer or a prospect or profile or buying committee is thinking about the issues that they’re facing in their higher education institution or their fleet management or their chain of supermarkets. And the problems that they’ve got are esoteric and they don’t know the ins and outs of the technical issues and they need these trusted adviser types to… solve it.

And as you say, these products can’t get bolted on from a pushing features and specs perspective, which is what’s so normal. I mean, that’s prevalent right across the ecosystem.

James: And what’s often forgotten too in our industry is, especially coming from like a vendor, I know I’m picking on the vendors, but I can do that because I came from dealing with them.

You’ve got that salesperson in a corporate enterprise environment, that’s a salesperson, they’re a professional salesperson. So they might not have had that role the whole time. They’ve been a salesperson for a long time, or they’re a super junior person, like you said, they might be like a kid that’s in SDR.

They already don’t have a peer relationship with the owners, but also most owners are very anti-sales. There’s a big pride of a lot of the owners will go, I don’t sell. We don’t believe in sales in this business. So there’s a complete different mentality shift.

The vendor’s going, well, I can just give you, here’s some marketing collateral and you can just run off and go sell it. We touched on the problem around just selling products, doesn’t work in an MSP, that’s not how the business works. But also, even if it did, no one has the appreciation that.

Most MSPs don’t have an engine to even do a mass email broadcast, let alone run a proper campaign. So even if you give them all these resources, then what?

They’ve just got this pile of work where they’re not able to actually disseminate it and push it out through any kind of systems. And this is that continued disconnect of why I think it’s so important to understand who you’re trying to enable, what their challenges are, because that’s what enablement is.

You’re removing the roadblocks and challenges of people so they can progress in whatever they’re doing. My role of enabling through education at the end of the day is to make people, create better businesses for our partners so they buy more licenses from us.

I don’t need to hide that fact, but there’s a lot of work that goes into that to do it. It’s not just throwing some… resources over the fence to them. That’s not enablement to me.

And that’s where both for the vendor and also the MSPs that are needing to look at enabling their clients as their client needs change and it becomes more of the digital transformation stuff.

Even with security, like I touched on security awareness, it isn’t just throwing these resources at them. It’s that people and process side, that’s enablement. It’s not technology.

Jeremy:

I want to jump onto what you just said and zoom back out to Pax8 investing in the Academy.

This is obviously, as you mentioned, an exercise in enabling and through the benefit and the investment into partners to increase consumption of Pax8.

In the time that you spend at Pax8, what do you see that correlation being? Do you see a deeper involvement in the businesses means the relationship between a cloud marketplace and a partner is deeper?

Do you project better partner lifetime value? What are you sensing there in the time you’ve been there?

James: Yeah, even in the time I’ve been there, that sort of value chain of the Academy. So if you look at the LMS is the cheap and cheerful stuff. It’s valuable, but it’s still free. And it’s still awareness level and it’s still like individual sort of resources.

That has an impact on people. It’s a smaller impact, but we’ve seen people grow by utilising those resources. We’ve seen instructor-led courses has a big impact. I’ll just pick on one of the ones that we did last year as an example.

We’re doing courses around CIS controls and applying that framework in an MSP, like operationalising security. It’s not just a benefit for us. We’ve saw increases in license sales, but actually it reduced the risk for a lot of… the MSPs that took it.

We had people come back and tell us, “Oh, I’m so glad I did that course because I had our biggest client go through a security audit from the insurance company and we got 90% instead of the average 60%”.

So not only did we get increased revenue, we’ve just then bought trust with that, that partner because they’ve got the real world benefits of it. And we’ve just like made them look really awesome in front of the partners.

Peer groups can help people grow dramatically. The numbers from the US are like 300% uplift of our licensed sales for partners that are in that program, which correlates with them growing at that sort of rate over time as well.

And then the coaching, which is obviously the premium offering that we have super deep relationships, like I’m sitting at the, the executive table on, on MSPs, helping them with their strategy. They deeply bought into the partnership and it’s both, it goes both ways.

I’m obviously there to be advocate for them to grow their business. And then as they’re growing their business, they’re looking for better partnership opportunities and they, they bring more business to the. to the table.

Jeremy: I get so fired up by this because the whole concept of eliciting and developing trust is so fundamentally critical, but because there’s no hard metric behind it, there’s no trust meter dial.

I think this is something that gets missed in planning, in discussions, in even thought processes around “How are we building out deeper partnerships for the long term? How are we giving to get over the short, medium, and long term without having that metric dial of understanding that if we put in $1 here, we get $10 here.” It’s “no, we’re investing because we know this is going to come back to us in multiple”.

James: That’s why I joined PAX8. I didn’t have to sell my business. It was very early on in the life cycle. I personally wanted to join PAX8 because it wasn’t just a lip service. You hear a lot of people talk about partner first, client first cultures and then you actually scratch the surface and it’s all just lip service where I can see.

I live it that there is that investment in partners. And I think this is where, this is where vendors and a lot of distributors don’t value that soft side because they are big corporations. It’s all about the numbers.

Where actually our partners, this is how they operate. They’re all based on trust. They’re all based on relationships.

Like I mentioned before, for a lot of our existence, we’ve done month to month contracts off the back of basically a handshake.

We’ve got these clients, most MSPs, average MSP of $3M revenue. They have somewhere between 50 and 100 clients on their books, but they’ll have their top five to eight that are generating 80% of their revenue and margin. And that’s still off the back of that handshake agreement.

They know our partners are all based on that sort of reputational thing, because it’s their business. they’re making money because their clients can trust what they’re doing. And this is why a lot of the time there isn’t good relationships and partnerships with the vendors and disties because we’re not actually meeting halfway. And for me, most of the, having been in the industry, it’s mostly the vendors and disties that don’t do the right things.

It’s, we’ve sowed the seeds of distrust in the industry that to gain that and have that engagement and those sort of actual partnerships, the vendors and the disties have to do a lot more work than what they’re doing to build up that trust. And that comes from a lot of different things.

But that’s why they struggle with initiatives to do like MDF funding. struggle with enablement things and building real communities because they aren’t generally coming and trying to build a partnership. They’re coming to blatantly sell and make money.

There’s not this long-term approach. It’s very quarter by quarter by quarter and I don’t think I truly appreciated that laws on the other side here and seeing how things are done and seeing how vendors interact and stuff.

As a partner, you don’t operate quarter by quarter by quarter in your thinking. You’re generally thinking today and long and sort of just like you’re expecting to be around for a long time. And you just everyone’s on a different on a different track and working at different speeds.

Jeremy: And what’s interesting is those quarterly sales KPIs are in the context of, or are targeting guys, as you were just pointing out, who don’t wanna be sold to in that way, and adds that incongruence there.

James: It is and I think that goes back to that, just that understanding that genuinely, especially in this industry, most people want a partnership.

Small businesses want people that they can trust and work with. And they will give, give and take. Like everyone surprised when they, you know, vendors and stuff go into competitors will be sharing information of how to run their businesses better.

But that’s the type of industry we are. Like even when I was working my MSP, we had a competitor on the other side of the car park. We’d share what’s going on and we’d be like coopetition and it wouldn’t matter. And there weren’t these walls up.

We all want to lift the industry together because that’s how we all make money.

That’s not how a lot of vendors and disties are creating their ecosystems. Because again, they’re treating it as like sales exercises and, and this sort of Academy type of approach that a lot of people are doing, they don’t position it in the right part of their organisations is probably my experience.

So it’s, as soon as you start putting sales targets on it and things like that it’s never going to succeed because it’s a long-term exercise and there’s a lot of intangibles to it.

Jeremy: This is something that we should come back and talk about again: developing out channel or developing out ecosystems, I think would be such a good topic to drill into.

You have just come back from a massive tour. You got the PAX8 band together and went on tour.

What’s next for you? What do you have in the plans?

James:

We’re going out again to do Adelaide and Perth very shortly. I can’t remember the dates but in the next couple of weeks and I’m sure we’ll be out on the road again and we’ll probably be hitting up Southeast Asia in not too long.

For me at the moment a lot of it’s just getting traction and continuing to build the foundations of the Academy to help partners at the moment, so it doesn’t stop.

Jeremy: Yeah, never does. Well, hey, James, really appreciate you coming on the show.

I think you’ve given us a lot of insight. I think it’s really special what you’re driving at Pax8 and what Pax8 has been so bold in developing and what you’re expanding into the future.

Thanks for your thoughts on partner enablement today.

James: Thanks for having me. Hopefully it’s been useful for the people who are listening.

Jeremy: I think so. If people want to tune into more from you, where’s the best place to find you?

James: Just find me on LinkedIn.

I’m sharing a lot of stuff and feel free to reach out to me. I always like having conversations with different people in there, around the industry and keep up with what’s going on.

So just look for James Davis and the non-smiling photo and you’ll probably find me.

Jeremy: We’ll drop a link into the show notes. Thanks again and thanks to you for listening in to Filament’s B2B Tech Marketing Podcast.